Interview with First Officer Carole Hopson
On Tuesday, October 12, I had the privilege to interview Carole Hopson. Ms. Hopson flies the Boeing 737 for United Airlines as a First Officer, based in Newark, NJ. After a twenty-year career as a journalist and executive, she pivoted to attend flight school and pursue her childhood passion of flying. Her first novel, A Pair of Wings: A Novel Based on the Life of Pioneer Aviatrix Bessie Coleman (the first civilian American to earn a French pilot’s license) was published on June 15, 2021—100 years to the day of Coleman’s remarkable triumph. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Joshua Kupietzky: Congratulations on the release of your new book. How and when did you start considering aviation as a career option?
Carole Hopson: Well, first of all, thank you for reading my book. I am always in awe of readers who find time in their busy schedules to read, so thank you for that. To answer your question: I have wanted to fly an airplane since I was a little girl, at four years old. When I was in my teens, which was a long time ago, the notion of flying an airplane—as a woman, as a black woman, as a woman who wore eyeglasses—oh my goodness, it was just a very distant thing to even think about. So, I went through a whole career before I was able to finally do what I always wanted to do and what I would love doing. And I was grateful for the opportunity to actually be able to do it.
JK: What was your first career, which you just mentioned, before aviation?
CH: I was a newspaper reporter. So for the first seven years of my career, I was a police reporter for a newspaper called The Bergen Record.... I did a story about a young woman who was a victim in a violent crime. It literally turned me on my ear and made me think about how I would get to do what I always wanted to do. And I spent a lot of time thinking about that. Then I left there [The Bergen Record] and went to the National Football League. I was there for a couple years; I got professional players into jobs during the offseason, and I snagged one for myself. I went to Footlocker where in seven year I was the Vice President of Training and Development. I started a school there called Woolworth University. We were on Leavenworth Corporation. I was focused on merchandisers, buyers and managers of every stripe. And I left there for L'Oréal Cosmetics. And when I had saved up enough money, and I was confident of what I wanted to do, I went to flight school full time. So I quit my job. I used to make six figures a year, and I quit my job and I made $17 an hour, and I had never been happier.
JK: How long were you in flight school before you transferred over to flying commercial for United Airlines?
CH: I was in flight school and finished kind of from one flight hour to certified flight instructor in eight months, two of those months January and February. It was very difficult to fly here in the Northeast because we had so much snow and precipitation that winter. That was in 2000. I finished in June 2001. So, I was ready to spend my time building up my hours, and then September 11 happened, just three months after I finished my certified flight instructor. The whole world changed, and I decided to have some children. My husband and I, by that time, we'd been married for about seven years, and I was moving and grooving in my career, but he said to me, you know, our industry is going to be struggling for about a decade, and if we have any kids, now's the time. So I had one—my oldest boy is named Joshua—and then I had my second baby. His name is Coleman—my husband named him after Bessie Coleman—and I fell in love with my boys. I was probably a reluctant parent because I was afraid, and I think because I knew that [parenting] was such an awesome responsibility. So I spent 14 years at home doing mommy jobs. What I mean by that is mommy flying jobs: I was a flight instructor, and I worked at CAE for a period of time. And I did that for about 14 years. And when I had the opportunity, when my kids were in middle school, I went off to United Express/Express Jet, and I was at Express Jet for four years, and then I joined United three years ago in November. So that kind of brings you up to date; that's a lot of history that we just covered.
JK: Once you joined United, how did you choose to fly the 737 instead of any other aircraft in United’s fleet?
CA: I was given a choice of three airplanes: 737, the Airbus, and the 757/767. Remember what I said: I kind of waited 14 years and then I got to United, so I knew I didn't have a lot of time, right. I had a little bit more than a decade, and in that time, I would like to be able to upgrade. So I figured I would pick an airplane that had a really vigorous schedule out of Newark, and I picked the right one, because our schedule was pretty rigorous. Sometimes we do transcon, South America, North America, Central America, or the Caribbean, and have all of them flying out of Newark. And then I said okay, which airplane could I gain time and experience on, and upgrade as soon as I could. And that airplane was the 737..
JK: Now is your goal to eventually fly larger aircraft or stick with the 737?
CH: You know, I would love to, but I might not have the time. So given the time I do have, I would like to make an impact. My goal is the book. June 15 2021 was the publication date, and the reason why that date is so significant is because 100 years ago to the day, Bessie Coleman earned her certificate—her license to fly in France. And that was about two years ahead of Amelia Earhart. What's so remarkable about it was that I wanted my book to be published on the centennial. I have a centennial pin, and my goal was the book, movie [more on that later], and to send 100 Black women to flight school. There's so few of us, and I would like to change that. It's work that Bessie Colemam started 100 years ago.
JK: You mentioned your book about Bessie Coleman. How did you get involved with writing a book about Bessie Coleman and her story?
CH: I was thinking about how I make this big transition from executive to airline pilot, and I went to the Women in Aviation convention and met people who are with me to this day. One of them is a captain for American Airlines, Jenny Beatty, and Captain Beatty said this to me: “You know I really see something in you, and I would love it if I could kind of spend some time with you during this convention.” I was honored. And so we spent a lot of time together at the convention. And at the end she gave me a gift, and that gift is a coffee mug. On one side was this picture of Bessie Coleman, and on the other side of the mug, where you put your thumb when you drink,there were two paragraphs about her life—and they changed my life. I had been in college; I went to Columbia University as a graduate student. And yet, I had never, ever heard of this woman. How was that? She was never in any history books that I read, she was never in magazine articles, and the internet was in its infancy back then, but I never heard of her. And so it began a 12-year quest—that's how long it took me to write the book—to find out as much as I could about her. And then it became almost like a quest to find out and put it into some sort of document.
Fast forward, I'd had my children, and they were in grade school—about 4 and 6—and we were walking along in a corn maze during Halloween. It was dusk, and I looked way across to the field, where my husband wanted me to look in the distance, and there was a Stearman biplane. I said “That’s a Stearman, and it's a 1941”. And he said, “I love a girl who knows her planes,” and we went over, and the owner let us sit in it. And as my kids were sitting there, I said oh my gosh, this is what it was like to sit in a biplane. And my brain went wild. And that's how I knew I had to bring her story to life, to an audience that was brand new. What was it like to be a black woman in the 20s? What was it like to be born to a mother who had been born a slave to pick cotton? What was it like to want to fly an airplane in a day in an age where women were not voting? Where prohibition was the law of the land? Where she had to learn a foreign language to go overseas fly? What must have that been like? And that was the motivation to get the book up.
JK: Earlier you said you are planning on making a movie for the book. How's that coming along?
CH: Slowly—slower than a biplane. It's interesting. ...In order to get the book to a movie, we've got to write a screenplay; in order for the screenplay to be accepted, we have to find a producer; etc. Oh my goodness, it's like 101. So I think that producing this book into a movie is terrific and substantive, but, you know, it's gonna take a second.
JK: You have a new project to get 100 African American women to flight school and to become pilots by 2030. How did you start that project?
CH: Bessie Coleman wanted to create a flight school, and she wanted to do it because it took her so much to get to where she was. I feel almost the same 100 years later. It took me three or four jobs. I didn't know that there was an airport in my backyard. And so when I started dating my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time I knew he was a keeper because he said this to me: “So what is your heart's desire? What do you want to do with yourself?” And I said, if I tell you and you laugh, I will hurt. I I tell you and make myself vulnerable, I need for you to know I'm serious about this, and he said oh my goodness, what in the world do you want to do? And I said I want to fly an airplane, and it was the first time, it left my lives I was 30 years old. Between then and the time I went to flight school, about six years later, we got married and we moved to New Jersey. I was finally going to flight school full time, but there had been this huge build up, and a lot of times people said to me, “oh my goodness, your career was so eclectic.” All those steps lead to where I am. It's kind of eclectic, but not really. As a reporter, I learned how to write and how to ask really good questions. As an executive, I learned to deal with all sorts of people. And so little by little, I finally got to where I wanted to go, but man it was hard.
JK: Are all these new recruits going to go to the United Aviate Program?
CH: So some of them might go to Aviate and some of them will possibly go to the Colonel Luke Weather Flight Academy in Olive Branch, Mississippi, and here's why: A flight education from zero hours to hero (or from zero to shero) is somewhere around $150,000. Let's face it, it's just very expensive. And then the other key is exposure. This is good business sense. We're looking at a talent pool that's virtually untapped, and airlines are hiring like crazy right now to fill the pilot shortage. The Lieutenant Colonel Luke Weathers flight Academy is owned and operated by the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals [OBAP]. Why that's so important is because OBAP is a 501(C)(3) organization. And that affords OBAP the opportunity to offer flight experience and all of the FAA curriculum at a third of the cost. So, it is a remarkable opportunity.
JK: And my last question is, what advice do you have for young aviators who want to be a pilot and who want to have a career in the aviation industry?
CH: This is what I would say: never, ever give up. Don't give up. There is more help today than there ever has been. And here's what I mean—Women in Aviation, Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals, AOPN, and the Black Policy Association—all of those organizations offer scholarships. There is money out there. And sometimes, and this is a crying shame, sometimes these amazing organizations go out there and raise the money, make all the opportunities happen, and then they don't have candidates to give that money to. Oh my goodness, there's another amazing Flight School, which is called the Red Tail Flight Academy up in New York, and that organization does so much. They started their inaugural class of seven. And they are completely funded. There are organizations out there right now that want to help. Don’t give up, search, go find a mentor. And finally, when you have difficulty, ask. Some of us are so afraid to ask for help. We see that as a weakness, but it is not. It's a way to get other people on your team. And if it's okay with you, I'll read you one quote from the book.I opened with this poem by a Turkish philosopher, and his name is Rumi:“You were born with potential. You were born with goodness and trust. You were born with ideals and dreams. You were born with greatness. You were born with weight. You are not meant for crawling, so don't. You have wings. Learn to use them.” He wrote that somewhere in the year 1200...Don't give up. Find a mentor, ask for help.
To learn more about Ms. Hobson, please check out her new book, A Pair Of Wings.
